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Much respect and love to you and your family. One day, the church will treat LGBT people as equals and will not divide families, as it has here. That day is coming. Thank you for your incredible, courageous, thoughtful truth. Thank you! Chester, I am moved deeply and humbled by your eloquent witness here.
I was a classmate of your son Chet and while I do not claim to have known him well I believe that I knew him well enough to say that he would have been very proud of you at this moment. I understand the deep need that LGBT people have to be loved and accepted by people outside of their group. It is the same need people in any other outcast group in society has, such as: the homeless, ex-convicts, drug addicts, people who were abused as children, refugees, etc.
I truly am glad to have a faith background, such as the Mennonite one, which seeks to love these and bring them in to the Kingdom of God.
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Yet sometimes this zeal also can go overboard. While seeing the brokenness, the imperfection caused by sin, traditionally it has meant we reach out in love to bring them to God, who is truth, but never denying that which is true for example: God does not desire people to be addicted to drugs, or be homeless. And we know these things based on that which has been revealed Bible , and seeing the devastation that the contrary brings.
Though it is not a highly discussed topic in the Bible, I cannot see how one could ignore this topic. It is as if Romans does not exist anymore?! If Mr. Having a clear conscience is not necessarily a sign that is the will of God. People who have adopted certain lifestyles such as stealing, lying, etc. I mean this in the sense that we are not for the condemnation of people who consider themselves LGBT, but believe that God is stronger than those desires, and can heal.
God is a healer. Being that He has healed people of other unnatural mindsets such as believing that the need for sex is greater than being faithful to ones spouse, that alcohol is a greater comforter than the Holy Spirit, etc. Now, it took willing and extremely loving people to work with many of these outcast groups.
And that is still what we need. And one must admit, people who have worked with outcast have also learned many a thing from these people. And that still is the case with the LGBT group. We can learn many a thing from them. But we must be clear: it does not validate the erroneous mindset and actions. Example: A person who was abused as a child comes into an erroneous mindset, sets up defense mechanisms which protect them to a degree, but are harmful in the long run.
We can learn a lot through experiences that in an ideal world would not happen. But God is calling us to not settle and become complacent in this imperfection. Thankfully EI no longer tries to do this but others will take encouragement from comments such as yours here. In reading this article It fills me with hope! I am not a Mennonite but raised in an area of Eastern Kentucky with a very large Mennonite population. I became saved by the lord when I was in high school and began my lifelong journey to try to find the path up the mountain like many others.
For a very long time I prayed daily to remove the stain of being a gay male from my life. I finally after years realized that the reason GOD was not removing this stain from me was because he had made me in his image and exactly how he wanted me to be from the start.
I realized GOD did not want me to lie to myself and the world by saying I am someone I was never meant to be, he expected me to be myself fully BUT hold to the same values. No lusting, unlawful relations and the like. Gay people are not some minority freaks of nature or unnatural, homosexuality occurs throughout the vast makeup of creatures who GOD chose to populate the planet he created for us. It is not unnatural or wrong. No heterosexual person can tell you they day they picked being heterosexual.
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Throughout this comment I really hope you understand I am trying my best not to be judgmental, but simply stating with I cannot deny to be true in the Word of God. I know I do not have all the answers on exactly how to go about it. We are learning. Just as we have learned to help abuse victims.
There are many personality aspects which I find very admirable in such people.
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I have no problem having a person of the LGBT persuasion as part of the church. Do we believe it when God says he is never-changing Mal ? If not, then we just pick and choose what we think is right, or? We as Mennonites many times accuse other Brethren of picking and choosing, especially when it comes to our non-violence stance.
Why is it wrong when they do it, but right when we do it? None of us are born perfect. All of us sinned before we knew it was wrong, because all us were conceived sin Psalm Yes, there are things we come to live with because of this condition, and cannot change. But I still believe God holds us accountable to the degree to which we can decide.
My view after hours of Bible study, time spent with gay people, going as far as I can into psychology, and in my connection with God through the Holy Spirit : Gay people can be in the church. Let their personality shine through! Yet, just as someone who has struggled with alcohol almost invariably needs to abstain from it, I believe a gay person with the Holy Spirit as their guide needs to learn what they need to abstain from, as to keep in concordance with the Word of God, and I believe God will help them with the transforming of their minds.
I know it sounds ridiculous to some. But I cannot change the Bible. And there are a fair amount of people who consider themselves gay who have the same conviction.
I hope it helps. Once again, please take this with as much respect as you possibly can. I am not trying to point fingers, but just express my thoughts and help us all respectfully and truthfully dialogue about this. I think it is entirely unclear that those verses are addressing committed same sex relationships. Daniel, you mentioned or quoted Romans 1 a couple of times, and seek call others to take it seriously. I do, and so from my humble understanding of sexual orientation, I understand that you can take this verse exactly as stated to mean what it says—if, and its a big if, you understand sexual orientation from a scientific perspective.
Gay men never were attracted to women, they did not leave a natural attraction to women.
Their natural attraction was always, and always will be to men. Hope this opens a new window as you seek to understand where all people are coming from. Steve and Jonathan, Thank you for your response. Good questions. The problem I see is, that such a distinction what is natural for a heterosexual vs.falkcomkabi.ga
And if so, you would most likely call it a sin. I believe that the way you interpret that verse creates a double standard: For heterosexual men, it is a sin to have sex with a man; but for homosexual men, it is not. I have not known for God to have double standards. Again, for me, it is the act itself which God considers destructive, which I think is what Romans 1 is getting at.
And just because something seems natural from a very young age on, does not mean it is good.
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There are many things which at that age seem natural and right lying, crying to get attention, hitting others, etc. Never made it right though. There are things which are good that seem natural early on already. It is shaky ground and questionable logic. With all this, I keep on trying to be as respectful of such people as possible. And we cannot simple talk about it solely from a emotional or biblical or scientific or psychological or spiritual standpoint.
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I am moved and encouraged, Daniel, by your desire to be respectful and loving in your response to me, or anyone else. I am disappointed that you jumped onto a limb that I did not address directly. My whole point was that Paul seems to be talking about something other than homosexuality here because he talks about men leaving their natural inclinations, pretending to be something they are not.